I guess since I'm startng this forum I should introduce myself first. I'm 61 years young and have been a muzzleloader for 37 of those years, and a rifle maker for about 10 years in the 70's. My preference's have always been the later half stock and full stock kentuckys, although I've made and used several plains rifles including the Hawken style. In the last few years I've noticed that there seems to be a split in the muzzleloaders ranks - you are either a traditionalist insisting that the only true muzzleloaders are hand built in America, and all the foreign made copys of Kentucky and plains rifles are second class citizens; or you're an inline shooter - Which leads me to the reason for this forum. I believe we need to recognize that many, if not most, muzzleloaders would be better off with these inexpensive foreign guns. In most of the forums I know of, if a person mentions owning or thinking of buying a foreign made gun they are urged to spend a lot more and buy American hand built guns! Well, a lot of use can't afford to! So, in this forum feel free to talk about your experiences with those cheap, inferier foreign rifles, smoothbores, and handguns!

Ned Christy

Ned,this is just what the world wide web needed.A site for us cheap folks that shoot Italian black powder guns.I have for over 20years and they work for me.Thanks Ned,and look forward to your great site,Murphy

Thanks, murphy! It's great to have you with us.

Ned Christy

Ned,
Very good idea.
Fun is fun no matter the price.
I don't shoot long guns, just revolvers. I shoot mainly Piettas and I don't like being looked down on by "Colt" people. I don't like cliques and almost all shooting sports are split by them.
A lot of folks already know me and know that I won't be doing a lot of shooting for much longer, but I will be having fun. I'll hang around and learn and try to pass on what I can.
Uncle Lee

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God, Country, Flag

Good on ya, Ned.

Backed into BP last year when I swapped obsessions from old battle rifles to cowboy stuff & dusted off a .58 'Hawken' I'd bought back in the 80s & used once (never found that bear, either, tho I waited all day for him in a berry thicket).

That led to trying it out with PRB - what a blast! - got a copy of Dutch Schoultz's ML accuracy system and a second barrel in .32. More PRB, more fun; learned to play around with patch thicknesses and all the techniques for wringing the best results out of any front-stuffer. Now haunting shops looking for 'junkers'...

Got some Uberti & Belgian C&Bs (51/61Navies, Pocket Police), but my favorite is a Walker - don't shoot conicals in C&B: RB all the way.

Want to try a flinter - anybody got suggestions for an 'economy' starter? Also like to find a 10ga.

Read all the BP sites lurking for info & the education: I don't post much 'cause I don't know much; looking forward to pickin' brains here & askin' dopey questions.

Good to see ya here, Uncle Lee

W.T.

Man this is like old home week,good to see some old friends around the camp fire.murphy

Hi Ned
The other Ned has arrived. I found this site by accident today.Great concept.
I too enjoy the old cheapo's from the past . I have some and am now looking for more. They are out there but, many of the owners think they have collectors guns instead of thirty year old junkers. Most have rusty bores
on top of that. I'm into makeing as much as possible for this hobby. I even make most of my own percussion caps. I haven't arrived at perfection with these but they usually work. I cut patches and cast my own slugs too.
Ned

Welcome, Ned! Glad to have you join the forum! If we can get more members like you willing to do more than just read posts we may make it yet! Please feel free to post as many topics as you wish.

Ned

Thanks Ned
I will give it a go. I Will try to relate my stories and hopefully not boor anybody too much. Its going to be slow for a while as here in Iowa we have been hit with winter storms this week.First a Ice storm and now a thick snow. Not even winter yet. I had hoped to be still shooting at this time. If we get a winter warm up ,I will get out and blast away with my CVA Mountain Stalker 50 cal. Need to get some balls fired through this one to get the last of the rust out of it. Its what you get for $60 bucks. Ned

I like the idea of this forum the rifles available today are equivalent of the trade rifle sold in the 1830 and 40's,they are for the most part strong functional and fun and most are capable of shooting very well.I once had a semi custom flintlock that would not shoot nearly as well as my Lyman GPR.The rifle's made by Lyman ,Tradition and other's are a great place to begin and a great place to stay. rusty

HI from the other Ned
Welcome ,we need all the people we can get. Anyone joining here will not be told that they need to spend a lot to get better guns. I believe this to be a celebration of the low cost and otherwise looked down old and newer clunks. After all ,many will shoot good. You just need to stay with it.
Ned

Well I am cheap , so I hope this qualifies me to some extent...
I have more than a few B/P rifles and have been lucky enuff to get 3 higher end production guns.
Never could justify custom built ones ... to dang expensive.
Glad ya started this website/forum.
Groundhog aka Mr Woodchuck

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Traditional shooter/leather worker/Hawk maker
Keep The Tradition Alive !
... get somebody else hooked !

I build a fair number of muzzleloaders around well-cared-for used or NOS Spanish barrels that I pick up at roughly $50 a pop from various sources. I will occasionally pay more for something of better quality but still priced to be a fair bargain, and occasionally I luck onto something in good shape at a significantly lower price than I normally pay. The point to this being -- as has been stated a number of times already -- not everyone wants or can afford "the best", as defined by a whole host of very talented but very pricey builders. I can build a high-grade gun, but unless I'm commissioned to do so -- I most often don't. Without a waiting buyer they tie up too much in time and component cost. The guns I build are similar in spirit, even somewhat in appearance, to low-cost "trade rifles" offered by such makers as (or modestly-scaled factories owned by) Leman, Henry, and others in the first half of the 19th century. I would much rather make a few dollars and see a new black powder enthusiast brought into our sport, than watch the same novices glance at rifles with price tags that are far beyond their means -- then walk away.

I've been accused of "cheapening" our pasttime. One: my work doesn't in any way compete with or threaten the livelihood of the several high-end builders I know and whose work I vastly respect; those who want and can afford that grade of gun will pass me by, and more power to them. Two: any new shooter of black powder will be a needed ally and benefit to our pasttime. Those who walk away empty-handed and have been given the impression that there is a seriously elitist tendency in our attitudes will have no reason to care about or support anything that we're about, be it having a place to shoot, being permitted "extra" or "bonus" hunting seasons, or being allowed to own these or any other kinds of firearms.

As one other member of this forum knows (figured out who I am, yet, Roaring Bull?), the low cost of the barrels I use not only makes it possible to sell my work at low prices, but to make gifts of it, particularly where kids are involved. "Ruining the future for anti-gunners, one kid at a time" is a philosophy that I may not have coined, but to which I wholeheartedly devote myself.

Some of my "cheapies":

WWWHHHHHHOOOOO HHHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOO!!!!

I was hoping you would show up on here.

Ladies and gentlemen, I wanna introduce you to a man who, as Mr. W puts it, is helping to keep the garden green!! Woodchuck, you will REALLY like this guy. I'll let him get into why I'm so attached to him if he wants to. But we've become pretty good long distance buds!

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Help keep the tradition alive!!
TMA Member #356
NRA
War Eagle Society
1Tim 4:12 Let no one despise your youth, but be an example of the believers, in word, in conduct, in love, in spirit, in faith, in purity.

HELLO MONGREL ... Friend of Bull's ... well grab a bucket n water the proverbial (sp) garden of tradition and future growth... need all de help wee kin gett.
Real nice smoke poles ya got pictured... make mine a 36 flinter please.
lol

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Traditional shooter/leather worker/Hawk maker
Keep The Tradition Alive !
... get somebody else hooked !